Subscribe: Spotify | iTunes | Google Play | PlayerFM | SoundCloud | iHeartRadio
Welcome to episode 112 of People, Pets & Vets!
Dr. Brad Miller:
Hello. You're listening to people, pets and pets with Dr. Brad Miller and Registered Veterinary Technician and CVP M Angel Martin.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Hello.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Each week we bring you current events and news in the veterinary industry and share our thoughts and perspective on how they impact us in our animal hospital. We also try to give you an insight and a behind the scenes glance at our clinic and the people in it. This episode 112 is being brought to you once again by Georgia Veterinary Associates, a family of animal hospitals, caring for your family, pet where healthy pet means happy life.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Is that what it means?
Dr. Brad Miller:
I don't know. Still trying to work on that. So, um, I misspoke a little bit. I said, each week we bring you current events and news. We try, we're probably good 50 out of 52 weeks, but we miss last week.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
We did miss last week and a week we missed a weekend may as well. Yeah.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Yeah. So, Uh, sometimes, uh, personal and business lives just get super busy and we cannot get it done or make it happen. But we really, really try, um, for instance, this week, uh, this episode should be posted out on Monday, but we're recording it a little bit early on Thursday night after work, because we want to make sure we make it happen. And I am going to be out of town this weekend. So, um, post-panic pandemic, we opened our lobby on June 1st.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
We did,
Dr. Brad Miller:
And we chose to make it as normal as we used to be. We are not checking, uh, vaccine cards. We're not asking clients to sanitize their hands. We're not taking their temperatures. We're not requiring mask. We are trying to be as normal as we can. And yet, if clients are not comfortable, uh, not wearing a mask, they can mask up. If they want to continue to curbside care, they can, um,
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Same goes for sanitizing, right? We have stations out front and we have a giant bottle at the law at the front desk. So if for whatever reason, they do have to touch our credit card terminal. They can certainly sanitize right after it.
Dr. Brad Miller:
So it's gone very well.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
I think so. I, it it's pretty much the clients are 50 50, whether they're wearing a mask or not. And those that aren't, they like are 155% normal.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Yup.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Um, those that are, I think, are doing it mostly, probably out of a courtesy for coming into the building, I would be interested to see like some of them on repeat entrances, you know, like I've not seen someone come in today and then come back three days later, are they still wearing a mask? I would bet. They're not,
Dr. Brad Miller:
Why are they doing that or not doing that? Is it out of the habit? It is it out of family at home,
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Right.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Uh, you know, respect for the business.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Um, yeah, it's all over the place.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Dr. Connor shared with me today, um, that she wears a mask every day. She's fully vaccinated has not had the disease as far as we know. Right. But she wears it so that hopefully she does not become an asymptomatic carrier and transmit it to her family back home.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
So my understanding is those that when you're vaccinated, there you're even the possibility of that is much, much less
Dr. Brad Miller:
It's super low, but she has three young kids, less than five at home. And so she went into an exam room with a client, not wearing a mask. The client was not wearing a mask. She was wearing a mask and she walked in the door and I'm waving my finger from left to right the class like, oh no, no, no, this is not going to work. We do not wear a mask.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
The client told her she couldn't wear a mask.
Dr. Brad Miller:
And she said, Dr. Miller with all due respect, I went off on this client. Like, this is not your decision on what I do. I'm wearing a mask because I do not want to bring anything home to my family. And she, I mean, she just like lambasted the client. And then she said, uh, the client was very respectful thereafter. And so we're all punchy. Right?
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Absolutely.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Uh, but, uh, it's interesting, you know, that that's human nature and you wear the mask for yourself more than others, but yet this client got upset that one of our doctors in the exam room is wearing a mask. I don't understand that.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yeah. I don't know. That's, that's different as well. I mean, it'd be like going to the restaurant and being upset that your waiter was wearing a mask and maybe, you know, you feel super opinionated on, on reading facial expressions and stuff. I don't, I don't know. I don't know why it would really matter.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but, and I coached Dr. Connor. I said, well, you didn't do the wrong thing.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
But so to be fair, I wonder who the technician was because our technicians are pretty 50/50 as well. Even if they vaccinated, I think majority of them go into exam rooms with a mask on most, mostly courtesy.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Ever day there's another staff member. That's not wearing a mask and we're just kind of letting it evolve and happen.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Right.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Um, so yeah, I, I, that was just interesting for sure. Um, I have not worn a mask in the practice for the last three, maybe four weeks, whenever, uh, before the whole thing came out about mask in public places and whatnot.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
I think, I know it was about the same time that the CDC came out with that. But, um, it was before we had announced to our clients and our staff that we were going to do that here in the practice. Right. So
Dr. Brad Miller:
Anyway, we're getting back to normal. Right. My thoughts are, and have been as long as we get like 15 days past Memorial day, which we're approaching that. Right. And there's no huge outbreak that a government or social media or other news sources are gonna pick up on and start just land bashing us with that information. We're going to be fine.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yeah. I mean, it's definitely not going to go away. Right. But I do think as we've talked about many, many times before that a lot of the fear came from that instant information that was kind of at hand.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Yep. And biased, I would say
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Sure. Overdramatic sizing things. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Dramatic sizing for sure. All right. So let's get into this. I'm picking some kind of fuzz off my microphone here. That's what that sound is. Um, news stories.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Sure. Let's do it.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Thought processes, something interesting that happened in the clinic. Um, let me lead off clinic wise, we have started using a new drug called clevor or C L E V O R. Is
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
That really how it's called Clevor or is it clever?
Dr. Brad Miller:
However, if you're from west Texas, this is probably called cleavor or otherwise a, you might pronounce it clever, um, a new drop that you put in the eye of a dog or cat. I'm not sure it's approved for anything else to induce vomiting. Why do we induce vomiting in pets?
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Um, most likely because they've eaten a toxic-, they've eaten something. They shouldn't have likely a toxin. Right. So, um, since we're talking about vomiting and things, there are reasons that you shouldn't induce vomiting.
Dr. Brad Miller:
What are those?
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
So sometimes, oh gosh,
Dr. Brad Miller:
Wait pause. What is the medical word for
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
We talked about this before? Because I say it weird. I say emmissis and you call it emmissis. Yes.
Dr. Brad Miller:
E M E S I S M E S. And that's not the west Texas version.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
No, but it's like respiratory respiratory tomato. Tomato. Yeah. So anyways, yes, there are definitely some reasons that you shouldn't induce vomiting as well. So if a pet has eaten something that you know is jagged or could cause trauma coming back up the esophagus, right. Um, some caustic agents, they say that you shouldn't allow them to
Dr. Brad Miller:
A chemical that would burn the esophagus, bleach-
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
That kind of thing. Um, so the interesting, okay. We don't do it that often. We were going to, we could go there. So
Dr. Brad Miller:
Clorox.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yeah.
Dr. Brad Miller:
It's like Coke.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yes.
Dr. Brad Miller:
You just said bleach. And I said, oh yeah. Clorox. Because to me every bleach product, which is hydrogen,
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
I dunno, chloride,
Dr. Brad Miller:
Maybe, sorry, something else. It's not HC02 that's peroxide, but, uh, a bleach product, She's going to look it up
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
I am, because I have to now
Dr. Brad Miller:
Bleach is a, obviously a specific, uh, organic compound. But yet most of us in the United States, the United States, I said, uh, just say bleach or say Clorox. Uh, and, and we know that's Bleach.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
How funny, when you Google bleach, you get like this, um,
Dr. Brad Miller:
Clorox thing.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
No, it's this, uh, gosh, I don't even know what's called anime. Apparently there's like an anime, uh, Pokemon kind of a thing. So it looks interesting.
Dr. Brad Miller:
So anyway, it's like, if you're going to drink a soda, a brown soda, you're going to say Coke and growing up a Coke could be a Pepsi, could be a Coca Cola. Absolutely could be a, an RC Cola could be a, a Kroger Cola. Right. But a Coke was a Coke and we know what that meant.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
You're going to be really surprised about the formula for bleach. Okay. What is it? N a C L O
Dr. Brad Miller:
Sodium in a C L like another capital. Yep. Sodium chloride, oxide.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Sodium chlorine oxygen.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Okay. Huh? Yeah. I am surprised.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yeah. Very weird. Um, so anyways, we, I was talking about, in the sense that, you know, you hear about people who like overdose on drugs and stuff and they quote unquote, pump their stomachs. Um, you can not necessarily quote unquote, pump a stomach, but can't, you like wash out, like you could pass a stomach tube and you can essentially Bosch then. Yeah. Yeah. So would you do that for bleach?
Dr. Brad Miller:
You would consider it, but quite frankly, a pet is not going to drink enough bleach.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
So let's say they did,
Dr. Brad Miller:
you would lavage their stomach. So there are some that do gastric lavage, which is a big, um, thing to do. And, or you would give, um, activated charcoal. Okay. Toxic man.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Okay. So I have, I have been veterinary practices for 14 years this year, and I've never, ever seen a gastric lavage. Yeah. Um, so a lot of people I think are pretty confused about that when they bring their pets in, you know, like we typically try to make them vomit, especially if they eat something and then if they don't, we usually treat symptomatically and a lot of people are very confused. Like, why can't you pump the stomach?
Dr. Brad Miller:
Yeah. So I have a thought because a lot of people that OD on these illicit drugs they're passed out.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Oh yeah. They're not going to vomit. Yeah.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Same thing. Like when you give a medication that can induce vomiting your thing, my eye
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Sedated pet
Dr. Brad Miller:
The, this, but, um, and this has pet cannot vomit. Yeah. And yet one of the staff members, uh, in the past week said, oh yeah. But if you're, if you're drunk at home and you're asleep, you can vomit. I'm like, I won't give you that, but that's not under general anseathsia.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yeah. It's a little different, but they're absolutely right. And that's typically how like, human ODS and like drunk people die. Right. Because they usually do choke on their own vomit. Yeah. Um, but interesting.
Dr. Brad Miller:
It's just cool. And we're bringing this up because clevor not clever, clevor is a new product, and it's a better way to do things it's better than us putting apomorphine tablets in the conjunctional SAC or the eye of a pet. Right. Inducing, vomiting, irritating their eye, rinsing it out to get it out of their system. So to speak, uh, to stop the vomiting,
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
That's a way better than peroxide, which I think that's kind of more of an at-home remedy. We don't usually use that in your practice.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Has a lower chance of working, Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's a cool new drug and we're happy to have that in the practice.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
So we've used it. We've had it maybe for a week and we've used it four times, which is so crazy because typically order like six tablets of apomorphine at a time, and they last until, you know, an entire year,
Dr. Brad Miller:
Typically 10 cases a year of inducing vomiting and four or five within the last seven days.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yeah. Crazy. So,
Dr. Brad Miller:
Um, I printed out your story about SADA zoonosis Bobcat fever. That became a problem. And the Southeast, uh, probably seven to eight years ago that we started recognizing that. And so the disease is ----- . Fellas, I believe actually could be ----a Canus, I'm not sure, but it is carried by Bobcat's, which we do have in our region and ticks will take a blood meal from the Bobcat and become infected themselves with the protozoal protozoal organism. And then I will, uh, buy and, or attach well, attach and bite your cat, and then your cat will become extremely ill.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
So there's, did you say there's only one type of tick that will really try to not say, but
Dr. Brad Miller:
It's the lone star tick and so very good.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
It's at home and they need to identify a lone star tick. What are one of the biggest identifying factors
Dr. Brad Miller:
A black spot on the middle of its dorsal back
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Dorsal back.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Yeah. Lone star. What's the lone star. State,
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Texas.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Wow. Yeah. So, uh, that's where that kinda comes from. Like the lone star state lone star tick has one lone white, not a star dot on its dorsal back.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
So importance being, or I guess some of the things that we worry about this, right, as it's mostly fatal, if domestic cats are infected with this disease.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Yes. We have seen- cats in the clinic here, uh, early on, have not diagnosed it and have they have succumbed to the disease. Uh, you basically treat them supportively. You cannot kill the organism. You just had to treat them symptomatically and support their systems. Um, unlike some of the other T tick transmitted diseases, Ehrlichia Rocky mountain spotted fever to be of note Lyme disease as well. You do kind of treat the symptoms, but those diseases typically calls more of a, a decrease in red blood cell count and or platelet count. So this is a little bit different. They develop a fever. It's very similar to FIP. And my thoughts on coronavirus, it's the body's reaction to the organism in the body. And they start developing this huge inflammatory reaction and the body just kind of goes crazy.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
So interesting that you say that this article basically states that the Bobcat's, even though, like you can talk about them being from like the same genus or whatnot, um, they are totally unaffected, even though our domestic cats get very ill with the same disease.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Yeah. They will carry it. Right. So let's put that in Crona terms, right? So you can acquire coronavirus infection COVID-19 if you will. And probably a third, if not 40% of the population gets, it is completely asymptomatic. Probably 30 to 40% of the population gets, it has some mild or maybe major symptoms. And then definitely less than 10 to 5% get the disease and actually are hospitalized and have problems. So, um, tis the nature of the infectious beast, I think.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yeah. So the best thing people can do is just keep their cat inside and away from ticks.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Yeah. And if your cats are outside, we would recommend revolution plus a monthly product. You put on that, on, on them. I was going to say, you have on your cat, uh, that is, uh, absorbed through the skin takes care of and prevents intestinal parasites. And ectoparasites including fleas and ticks.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
So interesting though, as you were saying that I was kind of looking it up because I feel like I remember that revolution plus does not actually treat the lone star tick. Oh, I was going to look that up as well. Yeah. So let me see here.
Dr. Brad Miller:
We say, does not prevent a specific tick. These drug companies have to go through testing Protocols and procedures prove that.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Exactally, so we would have to reach out to Jason to kind of find exactly Jason our Zoetis Rep.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Oh yeah. I'll wait, wait, wait. Cover that. Where are we guaranteed that so, all right. While you're looking that up, um, we will get to your locomotion.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yeah. So As you suggest, right, we typically try to relate things to what's happening in the practice currently. And the whole locomotion thing has come up with one of our, uh, our feline patients in the practice. Okay. And so, uh, we saw a cat come in from a rescue and we, um, sorry, real quick. The barvecto does not list the lone star tick either.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Huh. In canines, most of these monthly products do listen to the lone star tick though.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yes. As being covered. Correct. Okay. Uh, so anyways, back to the whole locomotion and cats, so well in really anything, we saw a cat today or not today, I guess, late last week in regards to the fact that it came in, because it just wasn't acting right at the rescue. And, um, the cat was just standing abnormally on the table during the physical exam. And so we took it into a room and a lot of, to walk around and it was mentioned by the doctor that the cat is walking very plantigrade. K. Um, and so plantigrade, I am not going to break the word apart. That's totally up to you. Um, but there are some different other types of walking that we see in the practice as well. Um, I don't even know how to pronounce it. Digitagrade, where they walking more on their toes and you're right. It.
Dr. Brad Miller:
That was a new term for me when you sent this for me to look at. So yeah.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Oh really?
Dr. Brad Miller:
Yeah.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
I mean, but you've seen this, right? Like you've seen the dogs that literally will come in and they're like just screeching across on their toenails,
Dr. Brad Miller:
Super anxious, scared, afraid they dig their digits into the ground, the quote unquote ground, which is the hard surface and they can't walk.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
But digitagrade is technically from what I understand is more termed to like hoofed animals because they're going to walk on their hooves instead of their foot, if you will.
Dr. Brad Miller:
The interesting thing to me is I've never thought about this in that way. Uh, ungulates or hoofed animals walk on the tips of their digits. Right? So ungulates hoofed animals that we have seen, or you know, of horses, horses, pigs, sheep, cows, goats, probably others, maybe. Uh, so say ocelots, but ostriches.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
I don't think so.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Emu and Ostriches. Ah, no.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
They said they're more like birds, more hair. I would call them more plantigrade. So that meaning that they're going to be walking on their metatarsal bones.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Digitagrade Means walking on the surface of your nail is the way to put that I think. And so how many quote, unquote nails does a horse have that they're walking on one.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
What? Bailey one nail on all four feet.
Dr. Brad Miller:
They have one, one Hoof.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
On all four feet.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Yes. A cow.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
I said four though. Do you have four legs? Gosh,
Dr. Brad Miller:
No. Uh, Cow, goat, sheep. The same. Yeah. How many do they have?
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
They have two.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Very good guess two weight bearing kind of like a dog bearing weight on, uh, digits three and four.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
So they only, they have two weight bearing and then two non-weight bearing.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Yep.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
That's so interesting. Cause you lived on a farm. Well,
Dr. Brad Miller:
I did, but in vet school, I got, this is kind of gross, but from the necropsy lab, I got the distal Liam of a horse, cow, sheep and pig. And I, this is going to be super weird, but you take these distal limbs and you can take the soft tissue off of them. You can either do it yourself or you can put them in a fire ant bed, which works very well.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Wow. That's interesting.
Dr. Brad Miller:
And then he, once the soft tissue is gone, you soak these bones and peroxide and it, I guess it whitens them up and it makes them last moving forward. And then you can put them all back together, the bones back together with glue or epoxy in my case.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
So this is getting very weird.
Dr. Brad Miller:
I don't have them anymore. This was more for study, but the point of the story, The story is a cow and a sheep and a goat and a pig stand on the third and fourth phalanges and metacarpals are metatarsals, but they also have the fifth. And the second as the little, what we would call, dew claws in a small animal and they have four.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
That's so interesting because.
Dr. Brad Miller:
The dogs and cats have, have had, they stand on, you know, two and three as far as most of the weight. And then, uh, the biggest, I'm sorry, three and four, most of the weight two and five are kind of dangling. And then their dew claw is, is the first digit.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
But in dogs and cats, two and five, you'll see pressure or imprints on. So like, let's look at, let's think about a footprint, let's look at a footprint, right? So if a, if a dog or a cat walks through paint or ink, you're going to see four toes.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Correct. You're not going to say the Duke law, which is not present in these large animals.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Right. But you said two and five are dangling. I mean, they they're, they're, they're just not carrying majority of the weight.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Right. But what I'm saying, a horse and a cow and a sheep and the goat.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yeah. They are still there as well. Like nothing's crazy,
Dr. Brad Miller:
But, uh, it's very cool. And then the horse, um, th uh, three and four are fuse together to create just one.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
So nonetheless, this is basically plantigrade digitagrade ungulates. It's how they're walking on their plantigrade.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Yep. So you talked about the cat, was it a diabetic cat in the end?
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
No, I think the cat has some neuro issues. Um, like it has, uh, and or musculoskeletal disease. Um, so yeah, it just it's back legs. They're very different. I don't think it really realizes that it always has them. I know the doctors have done CP deficits and so they're not super reactive, basically. Like the cat doesn't know that its foot is flipped upside down and so it doesn't correct it. Um, but again, when the cat does walk, he walks very flat-footed um, not just the paw pad, but the entire foot is on the ground.
Dr. Brad Miller:
So yes, this particular cat and other cats we've seen, they are walking with their ankle down on the ground, which is exactly the way human walks. Right. But pets are typically up. digitagrade? digitagrade? Yeah, this is a very weird new term for me. Um, but we, we talk about that, uh, pets, their ankles are up high in the sky and their digits are on the ground typically. Right. But yes, the planet grade stance indicates in neuropathy, typically neurologically the cat or dog. Uh, they're so weak that their entire ankle contacts the ground and in cats, the most common causes of that is diabetes mellitus. So that's why I ask
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
As far as I understand, diabetes is not on this cat's rollout list. Um, however, they are being, it's being tested for toxoplasma. Okay.
Dr. Brad Miller:
So a neurologic condition that could be causing that. So, yeah. Um,
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
And typically with rescue cats, right. From this specific rescue, it's not unlikely for it to have something I guess, odd or not super common,
Dr. Brad Miller:
Correct. With, Fur Kids cases, it's like they went to Chernobyl three times.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yeah. I mean, because who knows where some of the pets come from, You know?
Dr. Brad Miller:
Yeah. So, um, I did pull an article about wildlife and what you should do when you find baby very young wildlife critters. And so I thought this was pretty appropriate. Uh, typically every year in the spring and Georgia people, residents, homeowners start cutting down pine trees. And when they do that, they fall the tree or fail the tree. And all of a sudden the squirrel's nest is found and baby squirrels are found yeah, super, super common. But we also see baby squirrels, baby birds, baby rabbits, right baby, and not ever seen a baby ground squirrel. Um, but dealing with the grounds for all of those, that's A Texas thing.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
We've also talked about this too. Are they not like moles, groundhogs?
Dr. Brad Miller:
No. Oh, they're chick nut chipmunks. We call them ground squirrels in Texas
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Oh, well, yeah. I've never seen a baby one because they're all very small. A baby. One's probably gotta be like the size of a dime.
Dr. Brad Miller:
So the common thought process is with birds. If you are, let's say with any wildlife, if you see something very young, that's on the ground and the mom is not there and it's falling, fledgling, struggling, whatever the first thought most people have is, oh my gosh, I can't touch this thing because if I do, my scents is going to get on it. And the mom will never take it back. The second thought is, oh my gosh, this critter is on the ground and is struggling. I have to rescue it. And then once you kind of worked through those two processes and you wind up picking up this critter, you're like, oh crap, what do I do with it? Right. And so you want to say that, so typically you take it into your household for 6, 12, 18 hours, honestly, never more than 24 because you're freaking out by the end. And you're, you're either trying to take care of it and feed it because food is love. You got to feed it immediately. Right? Right. So let's go get some cat foods and some AD let's start feeding this thing and it just goes from bad to worse. Um, so this article out of, where
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Tufts,
Dr. Brad Miller:
Tufts I thought was very well done, very succinct, very, uh, in line with my thinking process. You know, they say that number one, whenever you see or find an animal on the ground, don't panic, don't worry that you have to save it because maybe it's there for a reason. Maybe this is part of the process of it developing, right. Uh, number two, they, they say, do not believe the myth that if you touch a, an exotic or not exotic, more of a wildlife animal, the mom is not going to reject it forever. And so that is a myth, which I found kind of interesting.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yeah. I mean, people even say that kind of bought into that thought process, to be honest with you. I talked to a client not too long ago, um, who felt the same way about her breeding dog that had puppies recently, one of the puppies was not doing well and she was very nervous about going in and touching it. And I mean, it's, it's weird to me because like we see we birth puppies, you know, in the mothers take to them, we're the first scent that those puppies have and the mothers still treat them, you know? So I thought it was very weird when she mentioned that, but I do know that that's kind of an old wives tale that people say
Dr. Brad Miller:
Can be somewhat true. I would kind of buy into that. Right. I, I said earlier, I thought that probably was true, but, um, the big couple of big take home points is a bird that falls out of the nest that has no feathers is different than a bird that's on the ground that has some young feathers called a feathering. The bird is called the feathering. At that point, those birds are forced out of the nest onto the ground. Mom is watching. Mom is helping to take care of, but it's a process of them were growing up. And so they will oftentimes be oftentimes to be seen flooding around the ground. They can't really take flight, but they're trying, and mom will feed and take care of and protect those birds, the baby bird that fell out of the nest. And I never thought of this, uh, with no feathers, the best thing you can do is build as close to a nest as you think it came out of, and either leave it on the ground in the area for mom to come find that bird, or take it up on the tree where you think the nest is, or, you know, the nest is and attach it to the tree.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Hmm.
Dr. Brad Miller:
And so I'd never thought of that. I would venture to say, most people have never thought of that. The instinct is, oh my gosh, I found this baby squirrel bird rabbit. I've got to take care of it. 99.8 times out of a hundred, when you do that, that animal is not going to live. Sure. Is, is my thoughts, okay. I could be wrong, could be wrong statistically. But once you do that, you take, you take that young animal out of their natural environment. And you, even, if you think, you know how to take care of them, you don't. Um, and the best thing you can do at that point is contact a wildlife rehab specialist.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
So that's a very good point, right? So I do feel like when every once in a while, and probably happens more than we know clients will call the front desk here at our animal hospital. And they will say to the receptionist, like I found this bird, can I bring it to you? Or I found this squirrel, can I bring it to you? Um, and typically there's nothing we can do for them. And quite frankly, we don't have a wildlife rehab license. And so we shouldn't be having those pets.
Dr. Brad Miller:
Now we do have to have a license.
Speaker 3:
We can humanely euthanize them if they need to be euthanized. Um, like if they, you know, I have heard like baby rabbits, you know, people would be going over the lawn and suddenly they've hit a nest of baby rabbits. And, you know, a couple of them are injured or whatnot.
Dr. Brad Miller:
The real, I, I read the article and I guess I knew this, but didn't female rabbits with babies. They make a nest in the shallow ground. They kind of burrow out, not deep, but they, they kind of make a nest, I guess that's the best way to put it in the ground. I'll say it again. And then they plucked their own hair to line the nest the way a bird would make a nest up in the tree.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Hmm. That's interesting. No, I didn't know that they plucked their own hair, but I have definitely seen a rise in snap. It's
Dr. Brad Miller:
And that's where baby rabbits stay. And so it's like, if you come across all this rabbit hair, don't think a Hawk came down and killed the rabbit. It's it was probably a den.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Cool. Um, but so back to the whole, like, you need a wildlife license, a rehab license in order to do this. And so we do not have that, even though we do have veterinarians in the hospital. And so I'll, oftentimes we give them a resource, uh, which this article has a resource for Tufts wildlife clinic. And I thought it was interesting that they basically said that call them any time for advice. Um, yeah. So if you find any of baby animal, pick up the phone and call Tufts wildlife clinic (508) 839-7918,
Dr. Brad Miller:
Georgia, you would call the Georgia is at DNR department of natural resources.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yep. You could probably still call these people and they'll be able to give you yeah. In your state or city, the direct people to, to talk to them.
Dr. Brad Miller:
I'm not sure why that caught my eye, but I chose to read it and I'm like, Huh. That's something that every day,
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Well quite frankly, I mean, it's very relevant, right? So there is a birds nest, um, on my back patio. So I have like a deck and then I it's, there's a patio. And so on the light fixture, um, there's a birds nest. I don't even know what kind of birds they are, but you can see there's two birds that kind of hang out. There's bird poop all over my patio. Um, and they come in, like in the morning you can hear them in the morning. And so Lance and I got a ladder and we went up there and we took pictures. And so we have pictures of just the eggs. And then most recently I kind of like took a camera up there and uh, on my phone real time camera like, oh no, no, no, no, no. Like I only thought about it cause I thought the nest was abandoned. Right. Cause you can't see anything. And so there's like just junk all over the, the light fixture. So I was going to ask Lance to hose it down and then he looked up there and they was, there were like five or six eggs in there. Um, and then most recently I looked up there and there was one little, I guess like patched bird. And then there were like four eggs. Um, so totally weirded had like, just like baby feathers. It was like face down in the nest. I don't know if it was dead or what, but obviously I wasn't going to go like playing around with it. But I just wanted to see, you know, what was up there because obviously we don't see the adult birds. Like we see them fly out of the patio and like underneath the deck, but we don't ever see them in the nest. Yeah. Um,
Dr. Brad Miller:
So funny story on me, uh, Sunday I was running it Mulberry park, a little Mulberry park. Yeah. And I'm at about the 0.5 0.6 for that little Creek to the left next to the road is you've seen that in the Creek to the right, going down and all of a sudden this, in my opinion, big red thing just comes right in front of me and then lands over to the right. It was a brilliant Lee, red, Cardinal, and it scared the bejesus out of me. It was just so it was so big and flew right in front of me, but it was like in its own habitat. So I'm like, I jumped, like I jumped when I saw, I saw the black snake. I told you about that. Right. Then almost stepped on the other day. It's like, oh my God, nature. Nature is beautiful, but nature can be scary. So, um, the only other story I had that I was gonna mention, I'll let you sign us out. Is, uh, Nevada has passed a bill to allow veterinarians to talk about and prescribe CBD products. And I believe it goes into effect in October.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Okay. I read that too. And I didn't think it was Nevada, but I, I, I had to read that as well. And so historically they were, you could like, the client could tell you and we have CBD stores all over here. Right. And like in the Atlanta area, even though like recreational marijuana or medical marijuana is not necessarily legal. Um, but we do have these, like the CBD stores, like my CBD store and whatever locally, but as a veterinarian, you're not allowed to discuss it as a therapy option recommended. Right. Yeah. Right. And so there are some products out there and they're like, you
Dr. Brad Miller:
Can, to be honest, I don't understand that at all. Like why can't you Discuss?
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I guess, cause it's in the local substance here,
Dr. Brad Miller:
It's not THC, it's CBD.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
I don't know. But yes. I thought it was interesting that yes, they can now talk about it under the new law and they can actually prescribe it. And
Dr. Brad Miller:
If anybody would do it, it would be Nevada to the pack. So anything else on your end?
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
I don't think so. Um, we are definitely like, it feels like full fledged in the summer. It's hot. It's humid. It's gross outside. Um, some are still what, 12 days away though? The summer solstice. 2012. Yeah. 12 days away. The 22nd usually. Um, I feel like it's only going to get hotter here in Georgia. Like I couldn't wait at Memorial day. I was like, can it just please get hot? And now it's like so miserable and hot and humid.
Dr. Brad Miller:
The one thing I've noticed the last week to 10 days is I am/we, uh, we being, you included and other vets and really the industry, we have been waiting for the world to open up and now it's open and I'm looking at my calendar and I've got so many meetings and events and things coming up.
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
Yep. Because everything has been put off and that's all cramped
Dr. Brad Miller:
Again. It's also stressful. Like, oh my gosh, I got to go here for four days and I'm back for two weeks. And I go here for five days and then we do the family vacation. I've got this meeting. I got that meeting. I got VMG. So a little stress, but we will get through it. Sure. Yeah. With the help of Dr. Yee and Dr. Sikh, Dr. Evans, Dr. Reiss, Dr. Connor, Dr. Williams, Dr. Heins who'd I forget that's then that's all of them. Yep. That's all. I'm going to help us here at Russell,
Angel Martin, RVT, CVPM:
So, okay. All right guys, check in next week. As we discuss more in the news and in our industry, follow us on Instagram at people, pets and vuts, make sure to follow all of our clinics on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Check out our blogs on our [email protected] please hit subscribe or download wherever you're listening to this podcast. And remember Without people pets or simply animals.
New Speaker:
Bye guys.
Do you have a medical condition you'd like Dr. Miller and Angel to talk about? Let us know! Email us at [email protected] or message us on Instagram or Facebook!
Thanks for listening and make sure to follow GVA on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and Pinterest.
